How Do You Build a Community in a Brand-New Place? | Stacia Wilson

Timothy Allen: Basically so this is how insanely good AI is now. I mean this is a high the highest version of ChatGPT. So I just took a screenshot of my diary today and I all I did was upload my screenshot got so and had it showed that I had three interviews today. So it came it said right okay here we go and it did Billy first your co-founder this and, and then Dušan the next guy, and then it came to you and it said right this one should barely resemble Billy's. So it already worked out that you and Billy are connected I'd not told it anything about you or anything. It said she's an anthropologist is that right.¶

Stacia Wilson: That's what my degree is in yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Right okay great I love anthropology she's an anthropologist and Meridia's chief community officer with experience in dance communities international co-living church planting whatever that is and political depolarization slash sense making she also built Curio Curio Curio around mapping disagreements and underlying assumptions right wow spine of your conversation this is what it predicts we're going to talk about okay you can design the rules can you design the culture it's not bad is it.¶

Stacia Wilson: That's literally what my talk was about this weekend.¶

Timothy Allen: Oh really.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Oh well it may have dived into you on the internet and seen that that's what you were talking about the point is all I did was look that's I just put that picture in and said today's interviews.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh my gosh, you know.¶

Timothy Allen: What I mean It is getting insanely good Anyway so yeah the word that popped out straight away for me was anthropologist I a former filmmaker but all the films I made were to do with people And a lot of them, I worked for the BBC and Nat Geo and Discovery Channel, was about old school anthropological kind of subjects, people that still live very traditional lives and live in weird and wonderful places. So I'm always interested, A, why people do anthropology and B, what you ended up coming out with it from. Because I know that if you study anthropology, sometimes the way that you're supposed to study people is quite standoffish. And they don't and they frown upon my style, which is basically go and live with them and ruin the whole thing, basically. Because I, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of ethnography, like, research where people do that. So I think that's a valid approach as well.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah, but it's, I think, like, if you study it in the UK, you're basically studying almost like a 19th century version of anthropology, which was walk around the world, you know, and just, you know, it's like examine the savages and all that nonsense, you know, like, yeah.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right, right.¶

Timothy Allen: But did you, so you did it at uni?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: And what's the backbone of your anthropological interests then before we get going?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. Well, my parents are missionaries. And, so I grew up in Japan. So I'm a third culture kid. And, so I was always interested in culture. And when I went to university, I was having trouble picking a major. So I was interested in biology, philosophy, religion, logic, just like so many different areas. And then I found out about anthropology and I was like it's all of it, and so yeah, so I was really excited, and, so I focused on cultural anthropology and my thesis was on the West Coast Swing community.¶

Timothy Allen: Swing as in swinging yeah people who go wow yeah West Coast swinging community swing yeah tell me about that then it sounds fascinating.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I got into that over 10 years ago, I was teaching ballroom, and then just got more and more into West Coast Swing and ended up quitting ballroom and just going full-time West Coast Swing. Yeah, so I traveled the world and like did my ethnographic research, took, you know, notebooks full of notes and yeah, wrote my thesis on the community. It was, yeah, very fun. And then I was doing that until, I mean I'm still doing it I teach West Coast Swing I've taught all over and DJ and yeah I love it.¶

Timothy Allen: The extent to my knowledge of West Coast Swing I think is the film Swingers do, you know the film Swingers?¶

Stacia Wilson: I've heard of it.¶

Timothy Allen: It's one of my favorite films of all time it's a very early film one of the first films that oh my god we're gonna have to google it what's his name is a very famous american actor.¶

Stacia Wilson: Is it dean collins no.¶

Timothy Allen: No no it's he's a tall guy he was in it was in wedding crashes that guy what's his name.¶

Stacia Wilson: Not sure.¶

Timothy Allen: Come on ChatGPT be fast anyway it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a cult film actually about a bunch of actors that live in LA and they hang out at kind of like those kind of events they They do all the stuff in the Hollywood Hills and stuff, will they? Oh, no, it says swingers is the standard term for wife swappers.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh, yeah. That's funny, actually. Sometimes we get people who join our Facebook groups and they're looking for something else. And we're like, we're just here to dance.¶

Timothy Allen: But anyway, so it involves, doesn't it, dressing up like you're out of the 50s, doing all that kind of stuff or not?¶

Stacia Wilson: So that's Lindy Hop and East Coast Swing.¶

Timothy Allen: Oh, is it?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. And so it does come from that root. But West Coast Swing evolved on the West Coast. It's the official dance of California, actually. And it's different and it's evolved more over the years. So whereas Lindy Hop is like trying to stay traditional. And so they like dress up like the 50s. West Coast Swing is very modern. We wear like active wear, you know, and it's we dance to like hip-hop, pop, blues, acoustic songs, like alternative. It's like a very broad range of music and much more modern.¶

Timothy Allen: Is it, you know, when you see those viral videos on YouTube of a couple looking like they're basically soulmates dancing like incredibly well. Is that what you're talking about?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of like amazing interactions between men and women.¶

Timothy Allen: Absolutely.¶

Stacia Wilson: And our competitions are improvised. So you're paired with a random partner and you dance to a random song on the spot so it's very you don't know what's going to happen.¶

Timothy Allen: Blimey. And you got to it to a quite high level.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah. I competed at the all-star level.¶

Timothy Allen: Wow. Like a professional level. Wow. So, and that was an easy, easy subject to do your dissertation on then, I take it.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. Well, I was new to it then. But by doing it for college, I was able to travel to events like three or four days out of the week, and then do my university classes the other days and yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Fair enough okay well that's the dance part that ChatGPT got right anyway.¶

Stacia Wilson: Very right.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah, but I can see why you've ended up in the kind of culture sector doing I mean what's what was the you it said you'd start you worked on a company q something Curio what's that.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah well let me let me bridge to that because there's a there's a bridge from dance to that, so I I didn't pay attention to like news or politics at all before 2020.¶

Timothy Allen: A lot of people didn't you're right.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I was a digital nomad and I was doing dance stuff and just starting I had a ladies web training for women in Japan to learn West Coast Swing in Japanese online that was very niche.¶

Timothy Allen: Telling me.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah so, so I was doing, you know like small businesses stuff like that, and then in 2020 the dance community became very political, and so for the first time I like had to pay attention, and so yeah, so I started trying to learn, you know about politics and economics and history and, you know I was I was just yeah and I learned about libertarianism for the first time and started to like get I realized that that was probably what I was most aligned with.¶

Timothy Allen: Was that something to do with the pandemic and what sort of conspired during that time?¶

Stacia Wilson: I think I was already a libertarian, right? I mean, I was a digital nomad and I feel like that was already my values. But yeah, it was, I mean, the pandemic, and then like the George Floyd stuff, just the social issue stuff, you know. I mean, it did, it politicized a lot of people.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah myself included really yeah yeah I was yeah anyway that's a whole other conversation let's get to let's get through that let's we're in the bridge we're on the bridge to cubit or whatever not cubit Curio Curio yeah.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, so I actually ended up starting a news publication in 2021 and I ran that through 2023 it was called Second Look News and we did deep dive research articles, because I was just trying to learn about the world and how it worked and the different perspectives and trying to make sense of it. And, so I had a team working on it. We had an amazing copy editor who was like a former intelligence officer from the military, like Snowden level, you know, and had other editors and stuff. But we published articles that would have like 50 sources linked. And then we would peer review them from at least one person from the left, at least one from the right, at least one expert, often more. And, so I was really trying to make sense of things and bridge the political divides and figure out what was true as much as possible. And then that led me to starting Curio, which was a decentralized like app, where people could bring the information that they had seen and kind of like compare it with each other to try to kind of do the peer review process through an app system.¶

Timothy Allen: In a journalistic sense, you mean?¶

Stacia Wilson: Kind of. The first version, I've gone through different iterations. The first version was very much like journalistic. You're supposed to like provide a source and summarize the source and how it supports or falsifies the claim. Yeah. Right.¶

Timothy Allen: And what happened to that?¶

Stacia Wilson: I still want to work on it, but I just have gotten involved in Meridia full time. And so it's on hold right now. The website is still up. It's tricurio.com if anyone wants to check that out.¶

Timothy Allen: It's probably one of those things that's slowly going to get hammered by artificial intelligence as well, isn't it?¶

Stacia Wilson: Possibly. I the the final version of the app was more trying to teach critical thinking, and so it's like a process where you start with a belief, and then you break it down into what are the reasons that led me to have this belief, and then you work upwards what are the results of having this belief, and then you can go horizontal and look at alternatives so it's like a framework that's trying to teach people how to think better, so I actually was thinking it would become more the more AI becomes popular because, you know, people will always need to know how to do critical thinking At least I think that important.¶

Timothy Allen: I suppose I meant that probably people will interact directly with an AI I get the sense that they just going to, you know like now I could say, teach me critical thinking, and we could discuss it for two days, and I wouldn't need to have an app. Or I could just say, make me an app that makes me critically think.¶

Stacia Wilson: Maybe, yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: No, no, it's got that bad now. It's that good.¶

Stacia Wilson: That's fair.¶

Timothy Allen: You don't even really need to stipulate much. In the old days, prompts used to have to be quite specific. The funny thing is, I'm using the online version of ChatGPT because I'm on the move. I've got a self-hosted one at home.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh, awesome.¶

Timothy Allen: But my whole family uses this one. And on the side, in the recent things, you can see what my family are asking, what kind of questions they're asking and stuff. And my 10 10 year old daughter is creating a a Fortnite game and I just played it it's amazing wow so she's she's she's but she's not she's just saying add this feature add this feature yeah it's a three-dimensional world that you navigate through and shoot things like Fortnite and there are other people in the game and she's, you know that's how good it's getting now it's ridiculous it's absolutely insane, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: Wow yeah I haven't done coding in a little bit, so I'm I need to get back into it.¶

Timothy Allen: You don't need to code anymore.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well, no, I mean, I haven't Vibe Coded in a while.¶

Timothy Allen: Right, okay, yeah.¶

Stacia Wilson: I don't know the latest, you know.¶

Timothy Allen: Well, the latest is whatever you, like all my, I've got a computer at home now, which has only got Vibe Coded software on it for the workflow of this whole podcast. So it edits, it does everything, and it creates show notes and all this kind of stuff, and it's just Vibe Coded. I know. It's getting really, really crazy. Anyway, back to you, less of me. Okay, so how do you get... Well, one thing I will say first is we don't necessarily need to talk too much about Meridia here, because I've just spoken with your co-founder.¶

Stacia Wilson: Okay.¶

Timothy Allen: And he... So I'm going to point anyone, if you want to know the ins and outs, go and look at the Billy Tetrud episode. But I'm quite interested in what you do there, of course, just less so about the actual ins and outs of what it's going to be what's going to look like what the legal front legal structure is all that kind of stuff perfect but your community anyway.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right yeah exactly, so I'm the chief community officer and I'm in charge of like creating the culture and building the community.¶

Timothy Allen: Okay well that's very interesting, because I mean first of all throw your cultural eye on Próspera where we are now this is the first time you've been here I take what do you see as the culture here just out of interest.¶

Stacia Wilson: Is there a culture here maybe well are we talking about like the beta district or St John's because they seem pretty different.¶

Timothy Allen: Correct yeah yeah yeah they are they are yeah you've actually you've nailed it absolutely but, but I don't know maybe both of them together I mean yeah well maybe that's a problem maybe there's a conflict of interest there I don't know.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well they're talking about maybe splitting splitting into two separate projects it sounds like so that does make sense maybe culturally but also I think it's hard for me to know the normal culture here because so many people have been here for the conference, and so it's I don't know what it's like normally, you know I lived here.¶

Timothy Allen: For a month a few months ago. So the normal culture is toned down. More entrepreneurs doing other stuff, not just the Free Cities market of governance thing. But are you staying in the beta building?¶

Stacia Wilson: The Duna.¶

Timothy Allen: The Duna [unclear], right. Yeah, there's Bitcoiners, there's startup people, there's biotech people. There's, you know everyone doing that kind of thing you don't meet oh actually I was going to say you don't meet butchers and bakers and candlestick makers but there is there's a woman lives on my corridor who at the moment who is a cook so that's not true either, but I suppose you would liken it to a little bit of an edgier and more toned down version of Silicon Valley I suppose, you know less money more innovation more to do with governance is on people's minds, you know the regulatory environment here is is such that people can maybe think outside the box a little bit, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah for myself like being a digital nomad and, you know an entrepreneur I I really like it here, but I also feel like it might be hard to stay. I really like coffee like lattes, you know and there's no coffee shop. I have to go into town for the like, you know lattes so that's been kind of surprising to me. I thought there would be like a co-working coffee shop that has like breakfast food, so I don't know that that was just surprising that was maybe the most That thing for me.¶

Timothy Allen: These are the these are the issues. There used to be a coffee shop in in the building over there but it's just moved out to go to an to expand into another part of the island but it was a it was an artist and coffee shop which sounded great until you had to wait 20 minutes to get a coffee. Oh, you know what I mean it was one of those ones where you have to make each one. Yeah, people are working out what's what's going on here. I agree with you I think there should be a coffee shop that just bangs out great coffees with a bunch of pastries job done, right? And and it needs to open at sort of 6 30 in the morning as well.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah yep agreed so well not that I would be up then but yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Well no I when I lived here I did okay there's there's the work ethic here is just that's what you come here for that's why what I would come back for for a month is I I worked at the gym, 5.45, 6.30, have a coffee, start working. Probably not stop until 9 at night sometimes. Well, you know when you're vibe coding and stuff like that? You just get absolutely obsessed. And there's no distractions here necessarily.¶

Stacia Wilson: I love to go places where I can do that. So, yeah. If there was a coffee shop, I would be more inclined. Like, it just has felt kind of difficult. I have to, like, go, you know? So, yeah, hopefully they bring one back. I know they're in transition.¶

Timothy Allen: 100%. I mean, you can still see the remains of the old place. What about the culture, though? So you think you're getting an unnatural culture because there's a conference going on?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, it's hard to tell who lives here. I feel like most of the people I met don't live here. And so, yeah, I'm not sure what it's normally like. If it's just people coming through and working for a time that's really cool I haven't seen many children, so I don't it doesn't seem to have a family vibe it does seem to have kind of the startup be like, you know younger entrepreneurs who are creating stuff so that's that's really cool and there's like the co-working space that's built into the building so that that makes sense.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah, I mean, that is basically it. Currently, as we stand, you know, at the end of beginning of September 2026, there is here a sort of startup mentality. And over there is more long term as people that live in sort of more detached houses, soon to be much more of a family oriented place. I think, you know, the science of getting people to come and live in your community is, as far as I can tell an emerging science in this movement I don't know what your experience is of that.¶

Stacia Wilson: That's what I've heard I'm still really new to it but when I I went to Fractal in New York.¶

Timothy Allen: And which is what.¶

Stacia Wilson: So it's they're basically taking over part of Brooklyn taking over like a bunch of people have moved there, and so they're living in the existing infrastructure and their philosophy is like start with community first. So they're trying to build a university, and so right now they like, anyone can put a course on as part of the university, and so they're like teaching each other skills and learning how to teach.¶

Timothy Allen: But is it a bit like, do, you know what the New Hampshire Free State Project is? Is it about like that? Let's all move to Brooklyn, live together and see what we can do. That kind of vibe.¶

Stacia Wilson: Kind of. My understanding is that they want to get land and like build a university town kind of thing eventually.¶

Timothy Allen: What, in Brooklyn?¶

Stacia Wilson: I think outside of, like somewhere near New York.¶

Timothy Allen: Right, I was going to say, that would be lucky to get any land in Brooklyn.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. But he was saying, so the guy, Andrew Rose, was saying, he worked on Culdesac as well. And he's been involved in the kind of like Free City, Network State, you know, community building stuff for a while.¶

Timothy Allen: What's Culdesac? You have to quantify all these terms.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right. Culdesac is a walkable kind of suburb-y development project in Arizona.¶

Timothy Allen: With buildings and stuff?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah. It's a development, but their thing was like they want it to be walkable.¶

Timothy Allen: And how far are they down? Is it built?¶

Stacia Wilson: It's built, yeah. People live there is my understanding.¶

Timothy Allen: Wow. So basically a version of what you're trying to do at Meridia. Kind of a small kind of a small urban development.¶

Stacia Wilson: We're trying to like go to a greenfield space and like build something from scratch. So and they don't have any governance stuff. It's quite different. I think it's more like a traditional, you know, just we'll build a little walkable area kind of idea. But it's definitely a step in the direction. And it's kind of proof of concept that people want walkable places.¶

Timothy Allen: So back to the science of attracting people.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right.¶

Timothy Allen: Come on, tell me more.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right. So Andrew was saying that there he said there plenty of land There plenty of people with land who want to do this There plenty of money going into this He was saying the issue is people and being able to attract people There's a lot of people. I've met people actually who have land and they want to build something and they just can't get people to come live there. So that's why I'm focusing on building the community now, because I think, you know, getting people to come live there, especially the cold start problem, is the biggest challenge.¶

Timothy Allen: And why couldn't they get people to come to their places then? What are the big issues that you see?¶

Stacia Wilson: Well, I think people would want somewhere if it was with other cool, interesting people and ideally their friends. And I read Priya Rose, Andrew's wife's article on how they started the community. And she was saying like she wanted to live with her friends, but then her friends didn't know each other. So to them it's just like a random group of people kind of and I heard this from someone else I think maybe here even that they were saying they got invited to live in a community but they were like I don't know the people like even though, you know my friend is there I don't know the other people, and so it doesn't it feels like going to live with strangers, and so introducing all the people who want to do this to each other and letting them build relationships I think is a key part of it because then you have like this network of people that actually know each other and care about each other and get along. And then you're going with that core group to like do a thing. And so we also have found so far, it's been more men than women who come to our groups, like to our town halls and stuff. So that's why I started a women's group separately. And it's for women who are family oriented and value nuance. So there's women who are left leaning, right leaning, libertarian, but they're all pretty open minded and able to disagree productively and, you know, have discussions. And so, yeah, that's, so I've had that group and a number of them are also interested in Meridia.¶

Timothy Allen: And so it sounds like you, your strategy has evolved to be to create a Network State alongside the physical community as it's right from the start so don't plan too much of the streets of corners and the legal system and this without also creating your network first I mean it's quite a I mean we I know a nomad influencer who would say exactly the same thing friend of mine who would say community is the single most important thing actually it's not It's not important that you necessarily have this great governance model because people will come regardless of that as long as the communities. And he was building nomad hubs around the world. And in fact, he said you should build for digital nomads. But hold on, not because you're expecting them to come, but if they like it, everyone will like it because they're very specific about what they like. So he said build for them, but they're not your end customer, if you see what I mean.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah. I heard that related to Cabin and some other projects that, yeah, digital nomads are not a great target group. But yeah, that's what I want to do. I mean, I was a digital nomad and I want somewhere that's awesome for digital nomads. And because we'll have like mixed use buildings, we'll have rental units so people can come for short term. Or they can have like a home, you know, and then travel and yeah have a base.¶

Timothy Allen: You said another word that needs quantifying cabin.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh right yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Dude I know nothing about any of this stuff every time you say a word I'm gonna call you out.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah that one has shut down but but yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: What was it though.¶

Stacia Wilson: That's I don't totally understand it it it got shut down before I found out about it but it was I think a number of nodes around the world where digital nomads could go stay in the different locations so it was like a nomad network I think yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: That's quite a common common strategy there's a no nomad village being built here right which is a version of that the guy he's he's got a number of places I mean it's a it's a very it's a fascinating subject the whole thing and, you know the like I say the science of it I think is out I think that the jury's out on what it involves my my observation of it is there's definitely a point after which it becomes much easier and that's when you've hit that kind of target of because the problem is you have this problem here in in Próspera is people come for a reason businesses come for a reason businesses won't necessarily start unless customers are here yeah customers won't come if the businesses aren't here it's like a chicken and egg thing yeah yeah yeah but you're you're you're Your strategy is screw that. You just get, you get a state, you get an online state of people who are ready to roll and have, what, presumably committed as well in some sense?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. I mean, I am doing a lot to focus on building the community in Austin of people who actually live there because there's weirdly a lot of people who want to live somewhere like this who are moving to Austin. Families and individuals, we have people come to our town halls all the time who are like I heard you're doing this thing I moved here to do this thing like can I get involved, and so yeah that's part of why we chose Austin as the the city to build near so yeah but also trying to build the online community as well because there are definitely people who don't live in Austin who are interested yeah one one thing I I got the idea while I was here to do is I want to start an app where people can start to offer services whether they want to live in Meridia or they're just in Austin we can also have remote services but start getting people trading with each other because my ideal for Meridia is that people can start businesses like small businesses offering various services and that they would be able to make money from trading locally I think if you have more like local production and stuff then it's more resilient with our long supply chains like it's it's not it's kind of brittle right, and so yeah like if we can empower people to be creating stuff and trading with each other and we can start doing that now.¶

Timothy Allen: So you're right, and then that's a good idea really you don't need to have Meridia up and running for people to be offering services with each other and actually like you say what is community building it's creating connections between people solid connections one of the ways you can do that is people doing business with each other and do you think there's a renaissance happening at the moment a kind of a bit of a kind of change of heart a lot of people are are starting to think about kind of like homesteading and living in communities. And, you know, do you think that's always been around? Or do you think we're having a bit of a kind of comeback or something?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, I don't know how much it's just the circles I run in. But in the circles I run in, it is very popular right now. I went to the Braver Angels convention a couple years ago. And so many people were talking about homesteading. They were wanting to do homesteading. So most of them didn't have land yet. And then at FreedomFest, some people were talking about it. So, yeah, just I keep meeting people who want.¶

Timothy Allen: And homesteading in Meridia, though, they're connected. But you're a town, really, aren't you?¶

Stacia Wilson: That's what we're aiming for. When I got involved, my original vision was kind of more of a homestead. It was definitely smaller than Billy's vision. But I didn't want to be isolationist like I didn't want to go off into the woods and just have a, you know my own home and maybe a couple others like I wanted something bigger than that I wanted interesting and people coming through who are creating things and doing interesting projects and stuff so yeah I I'm excited about Billy's vision because it involves scale, and so with scale we can have more businesses we can support more people coming through, and then we can have different boroughs, so I can have my borough that's like the the people that are most aligned sorry what was the question again I I got a little sidetracked.¶

Timothy Allen: There wasn't a question I was just talking I'll ask you one though what give me a pitch then give me your Meridia pitch what do you need to pitch or do people come to you.¶

Stacia Wilson: We probably need to pitch it's I think people don't know what we're trying to do when we first say it. So my pitch for it would be more towards like families. And I'm, my personal reason is that I love starting businesses, I love creating things. And I, I would really like to have children eventually. And when I look at the normal way of raising children, it doesn't align very well with being ambitious and also being a good mother. And, so I think if we can create a place where you have a village, right, of people who, you know and trust, and they also have children, then you can send your kids out to play outside, they can go to friends' houses, they can walk by themselves. Like I grew up going places by myself from like first grade. And I've heard, I don't know if I haven't looked into it, but like Reason Magazine published some stuff about moms going to jail and being put on the child abuse registry for letting their children five years old and 10 years old walk by themselves outside And so yeah that is not the world I want to try to raise kids in So yeah having somewhere that children can just play outside together and other kids who want to play outside seems like it makes parenting so much easier. And then you're not swimming against the normal culture of like iPads or TV or video games, you know, you have more aligned parents. And then also having interesting people who are building things coming through so that you can have like apprenticeship programs and stuff like that. And it's not like just a rural town, because I think rural towns, I think it would be hard to have people who are interested in the same things that I'm interested in that are more global.¶

Timothy Allen: What about West Coast dance though? There's not that many people interested in that, are they?¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh, it's popping right now. I mean, it's viral on TikTok. I was in a bar in Tokyo and my friend told the bartender that I do West Coast Swing and the bartender was like, oh, I love this dancing. It was West Coast Swing.¶

Timothy Allen: Like on TikTok?¶

Stacia Wilson: On TikTok, yeah. Yeah, so I will definitely be teaching West Coast Swing in Meridia.¶

Timothy Allen: I'll be honest. I don't get jealous much, but when I see two people dancing really well, I wish I could do that. Even if it's a wedding dance and a couple have spent ages. But it's always like groups of very , sometimes they look a bit smug, to be honest, because they're so good and they know it. And you look at that and you go, oh, God, yeah. That takes 10 000 hours of work doesn't it I'm not about to do that, but I wish I could, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: They're just out there to show off for you.¶

Timothy Allen: Sure yeah I know nothing wrong with that at all going back to what you said there about women and ambitious and being a good mother because there's a tension there isn't there I've got I mean I've got three kids two of them are daughters they're not old enough to be thinking about things like that but we do talk about it and I do think about it, because I have to be the one who gives them both sides of the story and ambitious mums and good mothers who spend a lot of time with their children it's difficult it's not like a dad a dad can I can pursue my career from from the moment my kid is not to however and I can keep going and going and going and I think as a woman you have a big choice to make and that choice is do I follow my ambition or do I submit to my kid? Do I sacrifice that side to my kid? I don't actually think it's a sacrifice personally, but the tension is there. And what do you mean by that when you were talking about ambitiousness and being a good mom?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, when children are really little, they do need to be with their mom more. But I mean, when I was in first grade, I loved to just go, you know, play with other kids. Outside, you know, we find cats or we find dogs and we're, you know, we're just creating, building stuff, making up games. And, you know, I think that was the way a lot of kids were raised before. I know, like, I've heard RFK Jr. Talk about him and his like five or six siblings or whatever, and they would just like go play outside. And, so I think if you're in a situation where you can do that, I actually think that's really healthy for kids to be able to go spend time in nature and just amuse themselves and be bored and find ways to entertain themselves. And then also if we have like our own schooling, alternative schooling options, I would love to homeschool where it's like they learn reading and math and, you know, like the hard skills, but then it's very like self-directed and like ideally they're doing real like businesses or, you know pretty early like the the reason for work is like to be able to make money to support yourself, and so if you learn how to create value and educate yourself then I think you're fine like that's what you need to get out of schooling, and so just having like a education plan that's really focused on what do they actually need to know, and then being very self-directed I think kids are naturally curious, you know, and so if you are empowering that and creating an environment that's really stimulating and educating then yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: My we're pretty old school where I live my family we live on a farm so the kids get all that kind of stuff but the tension is still there my wife stayed at home until they were well until a few years ago until they started going to school really, and then she started well I want to start my own business now so she runs her own business But it much harder It actually not as satisfying as I think she realized That's what we talk about anyway. And the fact is that she's still a mom. And you can't, just because you run your own business, it doesn't mean those urges and feelings go away. And you actually end up working a lot more than you think. It's not like, oh, the kids can look after themselves now. It's it's more than that it's like the whole thing it's the whole package it's it's it's being the director of the kids in a way being the the CEO of the kids and also being the CEO of the house and stuff I don't know what your views and all that kind of stuff are and with regards to like kids and letting them run free our kids run free they have we've got five acres of land that they can run across and the rest of the land all around us is just, you know they can go wherever they want pretty much, and then we've got animals and horses and all this kind of stuff but they still want to go on their phones as well you see what I mean I know you mentioned stuff about iPads and that but it's but they know they know when they're wasting time on their phone but actually their whole social life also gets generated on their phone, so I don't know I think sometimes sometimes we have these ideas about what what it's going to be like I was the same I thought I'm not going to let them have phones till they're 18 and in the end my daughter got one at 13 which, you know and but but she's very conscious about not being on it and when she can but she has free reign to do whatever she wants compared to some of the people that we know it's she they hardly ever on their phone she's just like one hour a day or whatever some kids are on it nine ten eleven twelve hours a day when you look at their actual stats I think when she first started secondary school that's when she's 12 I don't know what that's called first what grade that is in america anyway she the teacher the first thing that the teacher did it's like big school from little school said get your phones out and there was only two kids that didn't have phones my daughter and another girl and she said show us your screen times, you know and some of them were up to 10 12 hours already at that point it's an it's insane insane.¶

Stacia Wilson: I know do you think it would be like that even if all the kids around them were like their friends were living near them and they could just go to yeah would they still be on their phones as much.¶

Timothy Allen: Good question. I, we have a we have a slightly more spaced out version of that so our neighbors are all, you know half a half a kilometer away or whatever but because they can go wherever they want they can go and meet them. There is a bit of driving around for us, you know I grew up, and so did my wife in a much more suburban situation where everyone went out to play on the street, you know and I can imagine yes there would be much more incidents of just playing like that. However, I don't know whether you've noticed but that those a lot of those new generations play even when they're with each other they they still interact through their phones. It's very very very deeply embedded in life it's the culture of of digital technology usage is yeah that needs that that cycle needs breaking before.¶

Stacia Wilson: And I agree that's why we need a town right.¶

Timothy Allen: I know but still even with a town even with all these things.¶

Stacia Wilson: But like you said it's the culture right like if it's a whole town where all the parents like want a place to raise their kids where they're not on their phones and they don't need phones while they're young. I mean, I know it could also not work, but it's my best idea for how to make it happen so far.¶

Timothy Allen: Well, it could work. But like I say, I'm a brutal dad in regards to that, very strict about certain things. And one of the things I was strict about was phones. Until well I am still strict about them, but I realized that you are basically ostracized from society if you don't use your phone and there's no way that the whole town is not gonna they've got cousins and and friends in other places yeah so it will be very difficult to eliminate that element completely what we did was from a very young age teach them how stupid it is to be on your phone or how what a waste of time it is and we as parents made a conscious decision to from a very young age create an environment for them where phones didn't make sense like my eldest daughter's she liked horse riding so we ended up getting a horse now she the first thing she does first thing in the morning at 6 15 she has to go out and muck out the horse she has to because if she doesn't do it no one does it and fortunately she's very conscientious very responsible so she does do it but it's it's it's not it's not it's a very tall order but she does it and that often means that there no room for being on your phone because sitting on your phone scrolling compared to physical work in a yard full of horses is so obviously different, you know but but the culture I agree you can you can you can create a foundational culture, but I don't think you can ever get rid of the phones.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I don't know that I want to get rid of them like I agree like being connected has value. And then also like using technology to create stuff like vibe coding or using it for research or, you know, all kinds of stuff like that is really valuable. And I think it's good for kids to learn those skills because that's the future, right? So I guess I want a culture where technology is used for creative purposes. And that's like what the normal thing is. And I want the the culture to be where kids get their dopamine hits from creating value and maybe like making money from it or, you know like they're they're producing stuff and yeah I think it's the dopamine thing right because scrolling like you get that quick dopamine hit but ideally they're it's a culture where they're getting it a different way.¶

Timothy Allen: True, but I scroll. And I do know what I mean and I know and I I hate when I see my kids scrolling it literally it makes me sad. I think, you know and I appreciate all right as a 55 year old I'm probably better at handling scrolling than they are, you know because it's really, you know you're basically up against the most incredibly intelligent thing designed to keep your attention, you know so the older you are the better in a way. But but this is the worst part about it is we can't tell our kids to do anything that we don't do ourself, basically. It doesn't work it never works. Yeah, and I last night I was on there for about an hour and a half yeah I was just zoning out, because I've been such a busy day.¶

Stacia Wilson: So that's the thing is I notice I do it more like it's to avoid a feeling or to like when I'm really exhausted from a lot of socializing or something, it's a way to zone out and kind of like avoid a feeling or process a feeling in the background or something. And so my thinking is that if there's, if you replace it with healthier things, you don't need it so much. Like I find at certain, in certain situations and certain times in my life, like I don't scroll. And it's because it's filled with different things, different ways to process those feelings and get the dopamine hits and stuff like that. So I do feel like there's ways to not do it. It's just difficult like when you're at a conference alone and you're like doing all this socializing, and then there's like your nervous systems maybe like processing and it's such an easy solution.¶

Timothy Allen: So but it will be for the kids as well, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah I know 100, because I you know that if if I'm still doing it they're going to be doing it, so I've stopped just trying to stop them doing it and try to work with them to to to make sure that they are aware of what it what it is. I think as long as, you know that that's become the best strategy in our family and as a result, I mean they they don't use it a huge amount but when they do they know it's bad and it's heavy because basically and my daughter she was the one that told me this she she made it her screensaver. Basically she wrote out something along the lines of every second I'm scrolling on there I'm not doing real life. I can't remember how she worded it, and then she just put it as a screen and she's got all these apps on there that force her to do something before she can even access something. She's not on Instagram. She's not on TikTok. She's not allowed on TikTok she's not got Snapchat, you know but but even that with all those restrictions WhatsApp is where a lot of their groups happen and you can be on WhatsApp's a social network you could be on 10 hours a day if you've got enough people on there.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh wow okay.¶

Timothy Allen: What it is I mean you've got imagine you've got a thousand groups it's like us I mean most of what happens on my phone is messages Telegram Signal WhatsApp, you know all of those things they're social networks sure they just haven't got the pictures on them on the whole but even in some of our groups it's meme groups isn't it right it's posting memes and stuff so it's it's a seat it's a backdoor version of a a social network and I point as soon as you point that out to kids and because they think oh yeah, but I'm messaging my friends it's like what do you think social media is it's another way of messaging your friends Snapchat, you do it with pictures. Instagram, you do it with pictures. Text sometimes. But the hardest one I've noticed, because my 14-year-old now is suddenly interested in boys, it seems like a lot of people use Snapchat as a social tool to meet. So the first thing you do is snap them. And if they snap back, that's like you. Well, in my age, that was literally going up to someone and saying, hello, you know, my name is or whatever. You know, will you go out with me or whatever? But but it's and these are the problems. This is where it gets super hard to tell your kids. No, you can't. You can't do this. I mean, we we she had tears over never being allowed to go on Snapchat. But actually, she's come to terms with it, because I said to her, no. Not that this is advice for anyone's kids, but I will say it so a boy was interested in her and he's a really nice boy actually I'm I'm I'm a I'm I curate boys do, you know what I mean I will curate boys for my daughters 100 I actually liked this guy he was a genuinely respectful nice guy the kind of guy that shakes a man's hand and looks him in the eye my kind of guy but she said oh look but he's he's on Snapchat and he, you know and I said alice look if he wants to talk to you he'll come and talk to you Snapchat or not, you know that's that's that's a cop out that's absolute bullshit, you know like you've got to you've got to realize you're a valuable woman or girl, you know and this guy if he wants you that's what he'll do you can't you can't listen to crap like oh but you're not on Snapchat it's like oh that's a Signal to you anyway that's a completely different subject but.¶

Stacia Wilson: No that's a yeah it's very interesting to hear you're like you're living it right now so it's great to hear your experience.¶

Timothy Allen: I am and and I've become way more traditional in my beliefs as I've got older especially with daughters.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah how old are you don't mind me 35 right.¶

Timothy Allen: 50 I'm 55 so, but I started having kids around yeah about about now actually when you about your age and I was a completely different person. Didn't think about any of this stuff. Partner choice as well. I didn't think even about partner choice.¶

Stacia Wilson: Wow.¶

Timothy Allen: Which, you know what I mean. I didn't think about it. I come from the tradition of you'll fall in love with someone, and then live happily ever after.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: The truth is you can pick a partner just like you can do anything.¶

Stacia Wilson: Right.¶

Timothy Allen: And two partners should pick each other and there should be a lot of thought that goes into that actually.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: But they don't seem to teach you that anymore. Maybe they do in the church did you say you come from a religious family.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah although I don't feel it was very educational on dating right it was more like god has a person for you and, you know you'll find them and don't have sex before marriage yeah I don't know that was it that was the extent of.¶

Timothy Allen: You know that's the playbook.¶

Stacia Wilson: Not very yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: So well I mean yeah the the the The trad thing, the traditional thing, is definitely having a resurgence now, though, isn't it?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, definitely. I recently read a book called The Queen's Code, which blew my mind.¶

Timothy Allen: Sounds good.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, it made me realize how in, I think, a lot of cultures, men and women are not working as partners very well.¶

Timothy Allen: 100%.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, and there's a lot of resentment on both sides. And the book was such a good explanation of like how men think and how women think and how it's different and how we can relate productively I I think that author's Alison Armstrong or something I think and she does coaching in this and I'm just really excited to like uncover this world and realized how like a lot of women are judging men against the standard of like the perfect woman and getting upset when men aren't behaving as the perfect woman, and then like criticizing and we don't know how to like inspire men and yeah, so I'm.¶

Timothy Allen: The reason I'm just tapping on my computer now is, because I'm trying to find a feminist author that that sums this up the most perfectly and I can't remember oh [unclear name] Paglia that's it do, you know who I think it's [unclear name]. Just like Paglia. She is a phenomenal speaker on what you're talking about. Amazing. And when she explains it, it makes so much sense to a man as well because she talks about, I think, her grandmother when they lived in Italy or I think she lived there. Back in those days, men and women were hardly ever interacted, really. There was a man's world and there was a woman's world. And to the average liberal mind that would be like oh that's terrible but actually within the and, you know she said, you know like the women all used to go down to the river and wash clothes together and you would look at that and think oh that's so old-fashioned but actually in the women's world they were fully empowered men weren't allowed in there was none of their business that this was this was the women's domain and the men the same, you know, and then then you get that that respect between the two sexes. And one of the big issues that we have now in the world is men and women trying to work together this is almost impossible because and I tell you this from the male perspective men jostle for position and power and hierarchy that's what we do if I was in a company full of men and this is this happens when when you if you're in a group of men we we know what the rules are as soon as you as soon as a woman enters that space either they try and compete on a man's term which never works because we can't actually jostle with you as a woman in the same sense like with two men the worst comes the worst it's going to be a fight, you know and like you can't fight a woman so suddenly you get this weird tension, and then you get the worst type of woman in my opinion which is the boss girl woman it's so bad it's all the worst characteristics of men put into a woman and it just doesn't work, you know and, and so the this this idea that men and women are supposed to be interacting all the time in each other's worlds doing all this kind of stuff I think the jury's out I I definitely think the jury's out, you know, but I in a way I suppose I'm looking at what you're doing with Billy and that makes more sense to me because he's his his strategy is one thing yours is very much more of a feminine strategy community this kind of stuff.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah I think it's a good partnership I think if it was just men doing it would be very different yeah, so I think for a town it is a good founding team.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah yeah sure but but the actual working together bit I mean because yeah, you know like men also find it very difficult to yeah it's about the competition competing with women in a work scenario is difficult because we have to be like men I think a lot of women don't understand this but we want women to be happy all the time and we actually really, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: But that's what the book was saying.¶

Timothy Allen: But that's what doesn't work in a business situation because really you you're trying to be nice to someone and be respectful and polite and want, you know but actually you might need to say the opposite to that you might need to, you know it's 100 true it's it's where modern woman has got it completely wrong and the ones that get it the women that understand it just rule and have the best life ever, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: But that is also what the book was saying.¶

Timothy Allen: Really go on tell me why is it called the Queen's Code does that mean if you if you're a certain type of woman this is the code you live by and you'll have a great life kind of thing.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I mean it's it's kind of about how to get what you want from men in a way that feels good to men yes yeah because often women are judging men against the standard of the perfect woman, and then when men don't live up to that then women punish them they do things to like emasculate men.¶

Timothy Allen: Which is the the worst type that's the boss girl it's so bad.¶

Stacia Wilson: Exactly.¶

Timothy Allen: It it it is such a destructive concept.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah for everyone.¶

Timothy Allen: Exactly for absolutely everyone what's you just said something I wanted to know what you meant say I've forgotten what it was.¶

Stacia Wilson: How to get what you want from men productively in like a way they like.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah I mean even the fact that you say in a way they like make almost makes me cringe do, you know what I mean like but but do, you know what I mean.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah it shouldn't.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah because that's the way we we think about all all our interactions in honesty.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well I mean the other way like the usual way that women are trying to get what they want from men is criticizing and emasculating them when they don't do what you want.¶

Timothy Allen: You mentioned the perfect standard. You said that. What is the perfect standard of a woman then? What is a woman's perspective on the perfect woman?¶

Stacia Wilson: Right. I mean.¶

Timothy Allen: I mean, maybe not yours, but maybe these people that.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. Like women think in a diffuse way. So we're like kind of paying attention to a bunch of things at once. And we're like wanting things to get done so that we can clear it off of our mind. In the book, it gives the example of like if there's socks on the floor to a woman, it tends to be like screaming at her, right? And so there's all these things that are like getting our attention. And so the perfect woman would like pay attention to these things and take care of it because they love you, right? And the book was saying that, yeah, like when men don't do what we would expect the perfect woman to do we take it as a reflection of like he doesn't love me enough he doesn't respect me he doesn't care right, and so we take it personally.¶

Timothy Allen: Meanwhile the guy hasn't even seen the socks.¶

Stacia Wilson: Exactly that's what it was saying it was saying that men have more like focused attention like single focus and they're very much like goal oriented so there's like certain goals that the men see as like urgent and important and they like doing those goals right And they like focused on that And if the socks are not important to the goal then they don even see it like it not, and so.¶

Timothy Allen: I think one of the best memes that always keeps coming around on the internet is the couple lying in bed and he's he's got her back to her and she's thinking he's not thinking he's thinking about another woman or something and his speech bubble is thinking about the Roman Empire or something, you know like it's an absolute classic that's that's exactly it so.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah women have all these ideas of like if he loved me he would do this and he would do this right and and it's things that women tend to do like we're tending to think about the person more and like, you know, and so we expect men if they're not like thinking about us and anticipating, you know our needs or whatever then we feel like it's not they don't care enough but it's just a difference in how our brains work.¶

Timothy Allen: And is it always been like that then or is that a function of like the I mean since feminism 60s type, you know that has off I mean in my estimation at least that has caused way more problems for women and men but, but I'm saying women because it seems to be something that should be liberating women it seems to have caused more problems than not.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well I think there are trade-offs, because I think women are able to create lives that are more like like they have more freedom to just we have we can create the lives we want, and, so I think that's great I think we also lost a lot of wisdom and in some ways we're sold a story of like this is the life you should want and maybe it's not actually the life that would make us happiest so yeah I think there's trade-offs with that.¶

Timothy Allen: Well in in the case of and the one that I see showing up the most is women are taught that they can have the life they want but when they actually decide what they want it's not compatible. Like the the life they want is they want to have kids and they want to have a career and there is such a massive tension between those two things. At a certain point in life you you literally can't have them both in my opinion. If you want if you want to do do them well you can't do them both simultaneously or you you're farming out. You pay someone else to do one or other of them you have a nanny which defeats the point in a way many ways.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well I think there are certain certain things women can do that they can like bring their children with them more or involve the children more I think in the olden days children would help out more and like if there's a shop maybe the kids would work in the shop or, you know I guess it's child labor, but I'm not opposed to child labor, you know it's.¶

Timothy Allen: No no I I'm here I hear you it's true I mean that's what happens when, because I saw that as my kids were growing up as a stay-at-home mother as a normal mother they cook with you they bake with you they do everything with you they just want to do stuff with you.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah it doesn't really matter what it is.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah but but that doesn't they don't what they don't want to do is run your business with you when you're sat at the computer tapping away doing that that's what I mean by the tension, you know what I mean it's it's as far as I can see I have never seen anyone come away from that experience any woman come away feeling fully fulfilled in both in both elements doing one, and then the other seems to work yeah and it seems to work quite well actually.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah I I mean, I don't have experience with it, so I can't say yet. I have in my mind as like a backup plan. I'm like, maybe I can just write if I can't have a business and raise kids. But I feel like I could be wrong, but the idea of just raising kids and like taking care of a house feels like it would not have purpose enough. But but maybe it would. But I know like an 80 year old woman I talked to who did all kinds of stuff while raising five kids. Like she didn't work, but she did all this volunteer stuff and community stuff. And yeah, I think there are certain types of contributions that women can make that are more aligned with raising children as well.¶

Timothy Allen: So that's interesting that you, you know you you your your perspective is that being like if you think about what being a mother is for a long time for many hundreds of years it's been pretty similar hasn't it and and you but now you have an idea that maybe it wouldn't be enough but it's interesting isn't it.¶

Stacia Wilson: Well I don't know if through human history if it was mostly that women like that their main focus was like just raising children. It seems like women were working through all of like hunting and gathering like they were gathering and they were helping build a shelter or whatever. It seems like the normal way is for women to have work as well and like integrate their children into it. And yeah it seems kind of better to me than being fully focused on your that seems seems like it could be kind of a lot for them to have all your attention on them. I don't know if that actually the ideal.¶

Timothy Allen: No I mean but your attention that's your I think you're talking about more like helicopter yeah parenting yeah but like where it's your obsession yeah yeah working with them is by far the best way of of of interacting with them 100, but I think if you look at farming culture in the UK if you go back 100 years women had cottage industries that they did they would always in their spare time or in the evening when everyone's sitting around the fire whatever there there would be the option to to do like to knit something for sale or to make something or to whatever, you know That definitely seems to have happened. But I think if you look at, if I look at how we all, how our family has been over the last 10 years, what my wife did for the first 10 years was basically run a company, which was our house and our kids. It was because, I mean, in the modern version of it, it is, it's like running a company. You have to, even when you think about, I mean, your kids may not go to school. Ours ended up going to school and that whole thing in itself is like you need spreadsheets to deal with that that side alone or or making sure everyone's fed maybe sure everyone's getting to their things on time making sure, you know so it's a it's a it needs one person to I mean because it does need a person to do it in the modern sense I think, you know.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I mean like the thing with kids going to activities, right, and stuff. That's a very modern thing. So I could see how that would need a lot of management and managing the schedules. Yeah, I guess I've had a lot of examples. Like I, my mom homeschooled us a lot growing up, and she also worked full time. And, so I saw how she balanced that. And I think that's part of why I became an entrepreneur, because my schooling was very self-managed like she had the plan, and then I was responsible for getting my work done every day, and, so I learned how to manage myself and yeah so, so I really have the impression that it's possible to, you know kind of empower your kids maybe not with like all the activities I didn't have that many activities I did like ballet and piano lessons, you know but.¶

Timothy Allen: Well, that's two already.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Multiply that by three kids and that's six.¶

Stacia Wilson: But I went to it by myself or they came to my house for piano lessons. Because, again, like if in Japan where I grew up, like we would have bicycles. I could bike places. I could take the train. I could walk. Like it was very easy for kids to get around and safe. So like I would go hang out with my friends by myself. I would go to my activities. And yeah, so it didn't take as much.¶

Timothy Allen: And that seems like that's right at the core of the idea of Meridia is to create. Well, it sounds like maybe to even recreate your childhood from Japan, right? I don't know. I wasn't there, but I'm getting the sense that you thought it was a very productive way to grow up.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, I liked it.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah. And also, did you by any chance live in, because is this Japan or China? I forget. You get a lot of houses all based around one kind of patio space or whatever you call it. Do you in Japan? How do the communities exist when they're not in tower blocks?¶

Stacia Wilson: In our first apartments in more like the Tokyo suburbs, it was more just like an apartment building. No community. You know, it was just normal. In Okinawa we lived right next to a danchi which is like a public housing complex, and so there was like a park right next door and all the kids from the public housing would play there and we would all like run around the neighborhood yeah it was so fun there was one time like some kids found some puppies and I remember we were someone had put them next to this bank in like the bank courtyard or something. And anyway, it was just fun with all these kids.¶

Timothy Allen: Can you speak Japanese?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Do you go back there at all?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: It's the one country I've never really been to.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh my gosh.¶

Timothy Allen: And I'm fascinated by it. There are some amazing YouTube channels about foreigners that live in Japan and who speak fluent Japanese, but then take you to some of the absolute quirky idiosyncrasies of living in Japan. And it just looks amazing.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, yeah. I don't know that I would live there again. Just, it's not very libertarian. And just...¶

Timothy Allen: A lot of rules, right?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, and a lot of social pressure and... And yeah, I really like to visit. It's, yeah, great for like a month or two.¶

Timothy Allen: I think what I like most is the politeness. They're very polite people, right?¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah. And so much conscientiousness, like so much internal integrity.¶

Timothy Allen: Yeah.¶

Stacia Wilson: So it's been kind of weird for me coming out of that culture and also missionary culture and just like interacting with people who maybe don't have that level of integrity normally and just feeling surprised at the things that are normal in the rest of the world.¶

Timothy Allen: Oh, God, we're going through a phase of integrity breakdown, I'd say, on a kind of global scale, on a Western global scale, really, aren't we? Really, I mean, think about it. That's why places like Japan are so outliers when you look at them.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Because we've, integrity is no longer, well, it depends who you hang out with, I suppose. But it's not cool to have integrity as one of your pillars of life, really. But it should be, and I think it is. And I would teach, I teach that. I feel that I think that important But wow.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah I would love for Meridia to have that culture. I mean it really whatever culture you grow up and it like the water you swim in and it just becomes what normal to you. And that's why like if you can grow up in a culture, you know where like scrolling all the time isn't normal and you use technology productively and stuff then I feel like when you go into a culture that isn't that way you feel like something's off. Versus if you grow up in that culture where it's just normal and no one questions it then then you go into a culture that doesn't do that and you're like oh this is weird people, you know.¶

Timothy Allen: Did the Japanese use a lot of technology like scrolling are they.¶

Stacia Wilson: Oh yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: What about the little kids do they block them in front of iPads and stuff.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah yeah definitely they're yeah doing that.¶

Timothy Allen: That's a shame anyway yeah I should probably round it up we're way over an hour let's end on a good positive note you can you you can you can give us give us something to go on or, you know the future that what's coming up, you know your project up to you.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah right now we collecting letters of intent from potential future residents so if anyone is interested in living in Meridia and wants it to exist feel free to go to our website Meridia and sign a letter of intent It a way to support making this happen. We have meetups in Austin. Those are also listed on our website. And yeah, we love to talk about this stuff. We write about it on Substack and have social media accounts and yeah would love to hear from people.¶

Timothy Allen: And community building phase let's say yeah well is it and let me make sure I'm saying your name right.¶

Stacia Wilson: Stacia Stacia Stacia.¶

Timothy Allen: Okay sorry Stacia I've never heard that name before it's probably a made-up pronunciation is it.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah.¶

Timothy Allen: Okay well Stacia thank you very much for coming.¶

Stacia Wilson: Thank you so much for having to you.¶

Timothy Allen: And good luck with the project I'll keep my eye on it I come to Austin every now, and then, so I will check it out next time I'm there Hopefully. When you break ground, make sure you tell us.¶

Stacia Wilson: Yeah, for sure.¶

Timothy Allen: Okay. Nice to have you on.¶

Stacia Wilson: Thank you so much for having me.¶

Explore more conversations about how places govern themselves on the Free Cities Podcast with Timothy Allen at freecities.fm.¶

Watch more conversations on Timothy Allen’s YouTube channel.¶